Page One Hundred Fifty Six: The Axis of Elvish

Discussion (33) ¬

  1. Dr. C

    im interested in magic swords too.

  2. Marvelous TK

    Nazi elves. Should be completely absurd, and yet so much fantasy has suddenly clicked into place.

  3. eriendil

    Sieg Heil! But then, the nazis did form their twisted ideology by stealing from the past. There was some sort of a ledgend of an aryan like race before their time that Himmler and Goebbels tried to twist into their own flawed philospophy.

  4. Linguist

    The real aryan people spoke indo-irani languages and lived in an area around iran and india.
    The aryan language family is one of the eastern branches of the indo-european language family.
    The real aryan people still exist and live in north western india and in iran (name comes from aryan).
    The nazi twisted history for their ideology and ignored who the real aryan people were.

    • Zimriel

      What Linguist said six years ago, but I’ll add that there does seem to be an Aryan Y chromosome. It is R1b, distantly related to the R2b gene found in most of Europe. The Andronovo Culture is usually associated with this population. In ancient poetry, the Vedas.

      Interestingly the Germans had very little to do with any of this. Adolf was talking through his hat here.

      • Zimriel

        Excuse me, Andronovo / the Indo-Aryan Y gene is R1a. The Celts and the Tocharians (wide apart!) share R1b. I suck at remembering strings of alphanumeric.

  5. Linguist
  6. Maju

    Finally the truth behind Tolkien’s mythology uncovered. Let’s not forget he was a white South African… in the middle XX century, with all it implies.

    There you go Laz… and David!

  7. Sir Dude Man Guy

    Linguist… this is a web comic… I’m not sure you should be taking real life history into account for this…. just sayin…

    • eriendil

      Your’e right, this is just a web comic, not a high level, high stakes acedemic debate. It’s common knowledge that the Nazis called their so-called super race the ‘aryan’, but I doubt they would have ‘borrowed’ the name from a culture they would have viewed as inferior to theirs. It’s quite possible, too, that a word or a phrase can exist in different cultures and have different meanings.

      • Maju

        The name was indeed taken from Indo-Iranians, notably Indo-Aryans. It was not an specifically Nazi feat however: it was part of the, sometimes quite racist, anthropology/prehistory of the late 19th and early 20th century. Aryan was easier to say than Indoeuropean, so that’s probably why it stuck, with a Germano-centric or Nordo-centric perverse twist, until Hitler and co. gave the word the last abuse. Since then the term Aryan (in European context) and the swastika (not really related to Indoeuropeans in fact) became kind of taboo and are mostly used by Nazi-style thugs.

        These issues do not really apply in Asia where the swastika is still widely used with religious/lucky meaning (and a curvy variant is also popular among Basques in Europe).

        • Piki

          Goes farther back.
          At the end of the _eighteenth_ century it was remarked that Sanskrit and Pali have much the same type of grammar as Latin or Greek.
          The term “aryan” was used in a _linguistic_ context for the languages that _later_ were called indo-european. Because the word “Aryan” had acquired unpleasant connotations, that’s why.
          At the beginning of the nineteenth century, some authors began to write of an Aryan race.
          This was related to traveller’s tales, speaking of misterious blond peoples in the north of India. Actually, there are not that many blonds there, and they can be accounted for because of the ancient country of Gandhara, peopled by Greeks come in the wake of Alexander the Great. There are ancient Indian pictures representing light-colored people together with dark.
          Anyway, the “Aryan race” tale took root.
          In 1839 Courtet del’Isle (French) published: A study of the human Races.
          In 1855 A. Gobineau (French) publishes An Essay on the Unequality of human Races.
          In 1890 H. S. Chamberlain (English) published The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century
          In 1899 Vacher de Lapougue (French) published The Aryan and his social Role.
          Needless to say, all these believe in the Aryan race.
          Aand, you should add to this quite a corpus about the “Anglo-Saxon” race.
          All this is connected to the Nationalistic movements in the nineteenth century. You’ll find these ideas in France, Britain, Germany, Italy, and so on. Ah, and in the United States.
          These theories permeated twentieth century thought ot such a degree that you can find people that personally hate racism but that still believe in concepts like “young race/old race” (which was used to justify spoliating and destroying the Native Americans). Hollywood history has lots of these misconceptions, it goes without saying.
          I sure wish there was a shorter and witty way of saying all this.

          • eriendil

            a very interesting take on cultural history, thanks for sharing this! Although the Nazis perversion of culture and history was monstrous in both scope and content, I rather doubt that sub-intellectuals like the Nazi top dogs would have had the motivation or the brains to research it like you folks did, stitching together a cultural ideology from convieniently stolen bits of history won’t stand up to scrutiny.

          • SkitZ

            …wow… all that to clear up incorrectness… Piki, I facepalm and salute you. Oh, and rakshasa have what would normally be two left hands.

        • David

          Yeah, sadly, the idea of a bunch of Nordic Aryans running around being the master race in early history was hardly cultivated by the Nazis. Northern Europe and the United States actually made the idea popular to begin with.

  8. HVEgleRunner

    well laz can be rel stupid for a smartass

  9. flibble

    nazi elves!?… COOL! makes sense for their “we are better than everyone” speachs

    oh and long time no comment for a while!

  10. Kisame

    Dude. Srsly? Nazi elfs? Now you have to justify the term or prove it wrong, both aren’t very good options. Cause, yknow, if you builded his character before, made him a little more charismatic, given the reader time to sympathize with him. Know him a little better. And then you drop the N bomb and completely change their percpective about him. Yknow, like Neil Gaiman, which I assume you read a bit cause, rly, gods, interacting with other pantheons and aware to the fact they are they have origins from earth. It’s a nice twist, but it’s wasted if you do it as soon as you can

    • David

      Laz is reactionary and trollish, Kisame. I’m not going to base a plot point around one of his observations as he is now. Besides, the fact that Caleb’s a jerk doesn’t have to be a twist – we’re still getting character introductions out of the way 🙂

      • Maju

        But why did you choose the term “Aryan” of all possible real or imaginary ethnic groups? Obviously Laz is right and Caleb is a Nazi elf and you meant it that way. Also, as someone has mentioned, the racial superiority thing totally fits the elvish arrogance in most fantasy settings.

        • David

          Because, there’s a link between elves and the Aryan ideology, and the idea is that this crazy fantasy setting loosely parallels earthly belief systems. And Nazis were not the only ones to tout this idea – in fact, they borrowed it from northern Europe and other places where it was quite popular until recently. Laz reached for the most extreme and well known association he could find, and I can spend time in the future actually going deeper into the subject and developing Caleb as a character.

  11. mokon

    first Nazi zombies now Nazi elves what will be next

  12. Onasaki

    Geez. People. You’re getting over-reactive. The artist has a like major in Mythology, he knows what he’s talking about. He’s not talking about Nazis, Laz is a 13 year old smartass.

  13. bobthe6th

    or it could be that the few who did believe the natzis, did so to a digrea that it was added to the world of methodology. but in a sort of patch, so the elves think they are a part of history but are only a recent addition?

    • silverblob5

      That…actually makes a lot of sense.

  14. silverblob5

    By the way, the voting incentive seems broken to me.

    • David

      Uh oh! How is it broken? Is the image just not showing up?

  15. Sephirox

    This is beautiful. First LOTR names, now Nazi Elf? I love this

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